by johnydon22 ( m ): 7:38am On Nov 07, 2015 Op Yahweh is a semitic deity and it has Semitic origin and has attributes of many older semtic deities showing it developed theological attributes and anthropomorphical attributed gradually. Geez 7 mouth is particularly suspicious. This allows for trees to be developed rigorously, and for large classifications to be compared rigorously. On the question of what Levantine/North African means, and how it might relate to the origins of Afroasiatic: Thus, for example, ancestry related to the Chalcolithic Israel reference individuals could plausibly have originated anywhere in northeastern Africa or the Levant and could have been present in northeastern Africa for many thousands of years. The vos habls form is what I learned in Buenos Aires (mid-late 1960s). and object. * The reason that the branch between Sinitic and the rest of the tree is the longest could of course be that Sinitic and Tibeto-Burman really are sister-groups, but it could also be that Sinitic is just lexically innovative (e.g. If your preferred feed is Twitter, you can follow @languagehat to get American Heritage Dictionary Indo-European Roots Appendix The Bantu languages are entirely unrelated to the Semitic language familiy and thus to Hebrew. But I think I know the reason for this question. In There is abundant evidence for the spread of languages like Mande, Songhay and Hausa over the last couple of millennia (or even later.) Emmon Bach, Wynn Chao, in Philosophy of Linguistics, 2012. But to put it more concretely in Rillys terms, Northern East Sudanic.) I have to say that he knows a lot more about Nilo-Saharan languages than I do, though. Elsewhere urbanism emerged in the west at Byblos, Ras Shamra, Hama. This is the region of greatest internal genetic diversity within all of Oti-Volta, but its also a Sprachbund, as is apparent from the happy accident that the Western Oti-Volta language Boulba has wandered into the area, and participated in almost (but not quite) all the phonological changes that Manessy thought were inherited common innovations demarcating his Eastern Oti-Volta grouping. Sentence first However, the term is pretty common in American cultureespecially, as I indicated, but not entirely, in the West. When that came to an end would be when. Vowel change is extensively used in the Semitic language for both inflectional and derivational morphology. Digital Dictionaries of South Asia Afro-Asiatic, Austronesian, Nilo-Saharan, Niger-Congo, Khoisan, Indo-European. The non-r branches all have *i instead, and thats the hic et nunc particle that is the most common locative ending. By the way, Lameen, youve been paged in the spruik thread. In Latin America, pez has been largely ousted by pescado for both meanings. How did that even get into their collection? Adams Bodomo wrote a brief grammar of his own Dagaare, and is now a professor in Vienna, where hes encouraged quite a few African linguists, notable Hasiyatu Abubakari, whos published a steady stream of papers on Toende Kusaal. Sci. Some scholars had thought that the bundling of areal traits, clustering at the boundaries of a linguistic area, might be necessary for defining a linguistic area, though this has proven a poor criterion. Obviously, the bit about the spread of Semitic languages is of prime LH interest; heres a relevant snippet: In addition to the local ancestry from Epipaleolithic/Neolithic people, we found an ancestry related to ancient Iranians that is ubiquitous today in all Middle Easterners (orange component in Figure 1B; Table 1). * And all this, within a single group of undoubtedly closely related languages. It is convenient to think that Romans borrowed the idea from Egyptians and others borrowed from Romans: it would explain the current distribution of the form. Maybe Ill become a specialist in Eastern Sudanic! Clothing can be masculine or feminine depending on who is wearing it as I noted, it happens with diminutives here:). It does not apply to specialized dictionaries, of course. I also have great sympathy for those who want to use the spelling auroch, since the singular aurochs still just looks wrong to me. Rilly says: the Proto-Nubian word [for mud] was therefore *noog (collective) / *nig-di (singulative) mud, silt. Id prefer if hed also given a column to Old Nubian. (Apologies for brief comment because of internet limitations.). In principle we could have done that. On the other hand, Hanga, which is so similar to Dagbani and Mampruli grammatically and phonologically that you could pretty much use a Mampruli grammar for it (if there was one), has half a dozen words in the Swadesh 100 list which are completely unrelated to anything in Oti-Volta, so Swadeshing would falsely classify it as farther from Mampruli than Kusaal is. Sadly, it was pushed away from the market by Apple and Google. The eccentric but successful American businessman Timothy Dexter was persuaded to actually ship coals to Newcastle as either a practical joke or an attempt to ruin him. Hes indefatigable. Y Geiriadur Mawr misleadingly glosses this math o bisgodyn mawr syn llamu or dr, mr-fochyn a kind of big fish [sic] which leaps out of the water, sea-pig, but doesnt actually define mr-fochyn sea-pig anywhere. Youre probably talking about something like Indo-European in terms of overall diversity, and there are a lot of well-described Mande languages nowadays to be working with. Lachmann, though not the inventor of textual stemmatics, introduced the study of shared innovations into it nine years before the O.S. The Bantu language family is a large family of languages spoken by the Bantu peoples in the southern half of Africa. There are. Dimmendaal (who splits Niger-Congo) is even less fairly to be characterised as a person with no interest in comparative work, if anything. Japanese, of course, has several words for , the two mentioned in the list are (sakana, uo). Surely thats an incredible boost for anything thats as old or even somewhat older than PIE. So some of This was done before the main work and wasnt published separately (nooo-body will publish negative results! The Standard of Ur was captioned IM IN UR. Im fairly sure that a Bayesian phylogenetic analysis of the currently spoken Germanic languages based on Swadesh lists would show that English was basal. Rigorously , (From which it follows that the Germanic languages originated in the North Sea. I think what is more interesting is the idea that African modernity may in fact have been shaped in large part by three or maybe at most a handful of such demic events, those that gave rise to the language groups that seem to have swamped the pre-existing linguistic diversity AA, Niger-Congo, and whatever one makes of Nilo-Saharan. But of course even he did not think they corresponded exactly. If your comment goes into moderation (which can happen if it has too many links or if the software just takes it into its head to be suspicious), I will usually set it free reasonably quickly unless it happens during the night, say between 10 PM and 8 AM Eastern Time (US), in which case youll have to wait. He has a book, Archaeology, Language and African Past. they form dynamic, shifting relationships with one another which have nothing to do with historical phonological changes. Feminine/masculine of diminution as in Lopit is the same (I think we also need a language where augmentation rather than diminuation is widespread and marked, for collection). In 1912, Carl Meinhof published Die Sprachen der Hamiten (The Languages of the Hamites), in which he expanded Lepsiuss model, adding the Fula, Maasai, Bari, Nandi, Sandawe and Hadza languages to the Hamitic group. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); Copyrights 2023, Native It is a very basic animal. And this second paper in turn relies on data from UAE and somewhat incomple data from from pollen samples from a sabkha in Tayma oasis (not supratidal, of course: 839 meters above the sea level). Ryan asked about a good introduction that would explain terms like derivational suffixes so I thought about derivational suffixes and about those suffixes that are borrowed. I have no idea what point you want to make. * There is some scope for disagreement on this point (although I dont disagree myself.) Or as they call it in English, an accent, When I compared most recent common ancestor of Semitic to mitochondrial Eve, I wanted to note that everything is even worse: mitochondria do not reproduce sexually, even though they need us to make love (we assist their reproduction like bees assist flowers, just differently). It starts off with the standard tree, and uses lexicostatistics to derive dates. If not, how do those relevantly differ from language? But I do not know if it is possible to trace its history. WebHebrew is a Semitic language. Taking this universal applicability as given, presumably either intergenerational language transmission works much like genetics (plainly false) or the relevant mathematical techniques are not dependent on exactly how this transmission works. With the statement you quote there, I am in total agreement. An interesting feature of this Old South Arabian script is that the order of its letters departs from that of Phoenician and the consonantal script of Ugarit. (List of 130 actual French-English cognates. The trick to make sure the noise is random enough for this to work is to make sure you arent really including the same character twice in different wordings (or, as Ive seen happen, seven times); with morphological data, that can be quite difficult (ultimately it requires more understanding of development genetics than we currently have), and with lexical data, its a failure of peer review in the original PIE is old enough for Renfrew paper. A de facto group of distinct language varieties within the Semitic branch, the languages that evolved from Proto-Arabic have around 313 million native speakers, concentrated primarily in the Middle East and North Africa. They are widely believed speculations, but it still surprises me a bit that someone of his evident gifts is not more critical of their shaky evidential status. I was greatly taken aback to find just how very little there was to support these grandiose claims. . The trees are rather trivially repeatable: given the same data, the same method and the same settings (which you really ought to publish), you will get the same trees. ), Sinitic split off from the rest of Tibeto-Burman. Note In all likelihood, nominal cases originally existed in Meroitic just as they exist in modern NES languages and Meroitic verbal morphology is still mostly unknown and assumptions in this matter remain highly speculative. He gives only a couple of forms proposed to be cognate with other NES languages. The resulting tree was pretty good, identifying English/Spanish as a subnode (probably because shared Latinisms) and Arabic as most distant from the rest (probably because AA + fewer English borrowings + lowest weight). In doing so, Greenberg sought to emphasize the fact that Hamitic was not a valid group and that language cladistics did not reflect race. .] Courtesy Glenn M. Schwartz. And this part is entirely absent from normal linguistical and sociolinguistical description. @drasvi, to me Ouch! sounds like you think its wrong or wrongheaded. Yeah, I dont recall his commenting here, but he follows the site and is a faithful link-sender. I think they just mean that Akkadian is the first attested Semitic language. I wonder if any ancient DNA from Nabta Playa has been analysed yet? Edit: I think Chung et al. So the early Neolithic in North Africa is consistent with Paleolithic genetics, but the later Neolithic is loaded with Middle Eastern genomes. The article is part of an issue of Human Molecular Genetics surveying the genetics of Africa. (b) only two of these literal dozens of classes have affixes which look plausibly related to anything in Gur beyond sheer chance: the highly semantically-marked human and liquid classes. And I am not even speaking about the fact that now I need VPN to see the text (perhaps because of the war). (Keep in mind these affinities are proxies.). 109-142. If what I see in his works is so much different from what people say about them, it tells something about these people, not him. Is it? XVIII [Dictionary of 18th-c. Russian] Is there a mechanism among bands of hunter-gatherers that would have systematically done that across a region as large as that in which even non-Bantu Niger-Congo is spoken, other than demic replacement? Vasmers etymological dictionary(Russian) Quite recently, additional examples of Proto-Sinaitic writing have been discovered near the ancient city of Thebes, along the Farsht Road at Wadi el-Hol, dating c. 1850 BC (Darnell etal., 2005). Both also happen to be the oldest attested (modulo some very short texts in the latter case), but this is in no way relevant to their basal status. It comes from Spanish and is probably more commonly used in the American West than in the East, but the OED records its use in English (in the original meaning of beach) all the way back to 1600 (although until the nineteenth century it seems to be used primarily in descriptions of beaches in Spanish-speaking areasadding a bit of local linguistic color). and i dont know of languages that do a salt/freshwater fish distinction. or a great fish; any great fish (LANE) hat im Gegensatz zu samak fish die Nebenbedeutung gro. Biology also benefits from the existence of ribosomal RNA genes, which have a number of properties that have made sequencing them an extremely powerful tool for developing trees. Re Proto-Semitic being spoken in the area now known as the Rub-al-Khali, a hypothesized Urheimat buried under sand dunes is not quite as advantageous (in terms of resistance to impertinent questions from skeptics) as one submerged under the North Sea, but still pretty good. He believed he was an Ukrainian szlachcic, from a family of Polish origin. Same root of course (also tug which makes my Old Norse loan senses tingle), just not the same ablaut or Verner grade. What regulates population of people who live along rivers and sea coasts? Heres a short version. I have this comment by Hans in mind: That said, I seem to remember that the idea that Semitic originated in Ethiopia and spread from there to Asia (propagated by Roger Blench?) visserij (maybe from older vischerij, but I have not checked), corresponding to OF pescherie. I was getting used and even began to see some prickly quality to the word, but then I learned hog and realized that it is a learned compound (inspired by porcupine?) @Roger C. Could you please give some examples of how pescado has largely displaced pez in Western Hemispheric Spanish? Movies listed by language at IMDB ystervark ironpig (also German Stachelschwein, Dutch stekelvarken, Finnish piikkisika etc.). I ran a self-admittedly crude lexicostatistics program on the Lojban primitive word list, which at 1,432 words is a W.L.O.U.S. The Untranslated It certainly helps to be familiar with at least one of the languages in question, but even that neednt imply actual residence in the area. This could leave a relatively random loss-or-retention pattern across daughters, even when there is no major morphology-driven replacement going on. But surely the example of Sino-Tibetan proves that its not required. 1) fiske, fiskfngst. paperpools Melville knew that whales are not fish,but whales fit into the fisheries group. The headline is The dying fish swims in water.. This is a pretty unfair caricature of Blench. Combine that with the apparent prevalence of Natufian Y-haplotypes among Berbers and Somalis, and Im starting to suspect that Militarev got it right after all when he identified Afroasiatic with Natufian, least moves notwithstanding. Instead, some of the proposed cognates-or-whatever have nontrivial sound correspondences to Cushitic and Omotic, notably Hadza /t/ AA /k/ despite, as is pointed out, Hadza having a /k/. That could be wholly unrelated to what I call a blunder; Ill need to check. Before I got interested in West African languages myself, I had sort of assumed that entities like Niger-Kordofanian were actual demonstrated things, like Indo-European or Algonquian. I seem to recall quite a lot being made of the -s derivational suffix plausibly reconstructed on other grounds for Old Chinese, for example. Citrus Moon And I dont think his mud forms support it (even if he can explain the vowel changes.). By I am no Greenberg, to be deluded by such pretty baubles . (in English) It is careful comparative work on Khoisan that has shown that Greenberg was wrong in lumping all these languages together, for example. The extinct Meroitic language has been proposed (Bruce Trigger, 1964, 1977) as an unclassified Afroasiatic language, because it shares the phonotactics characteristic of the family, but there is not enough evidence to secure a classification (Fritz Hintze, 1974). But each article is heavily footnoted, so you can test their assertions easily. The opposite idea, that Semitic originated geographically close to the other AfAs language families (so, in Africa), has been proposed a few times but not been widely accepted. A very detailed one is in Edward Lipiskis Semitic Languages: Outline of a Comparative Grammar. 4) why so many peoples called hedgehog by such a compound? Precisely the opposite. (This is not just some cranky-amateur individual opinion of my own: the communis opinio has been changing on this for a while now.). Hadza people, Sandawe people, Twa people, Bangweulu Batwa, Great Lakes Twa, Kafwe Twa, Lukanga Twa, Nilo-Saharan, Kalenjin people, Maasai people, Samburu people, Bantu languages, Abagusii People, Kikuyu people, Luhya people, Bukusu, Afroasiatic, Iraqw people, Rendille people. of, relating to, or denoting a family of languages spoken in southern India and Sri Lanka, or the peoples who speak them. Its a heated overstatement about the authors perceived opponents.. In the case of the French verb system, verbs featuring a single root are listed under this common root, while verbs featuring more than one root have separate, but linked, listings under each root. Blench (1999d). It calls for subsidy if you ask me. and there is evidence for pastoralism at Nabta Playa (southern Egypt) by around 7500 BC. But it is no different from mitochondrial Eve. If I understand, that seems like a position youve moved beyond? It would perhaps be right to say that his views are conservative except where they contradict his own data. During the early second millennium BC, a Semitic people living and laboring in Egypt developed a script for their own language by exploiting a single component of the Egyptian writing system. The glamour mags all deal primarily with the natural sciences, so there may not have been an editor available who knew much of anything about linguistics. (Dutch etymology) Vocabolario Etimologico della Lingua Italiana So if Im talking about the origin of turtles, all mammals are the basalmost amniotes because the basal (!) *hduH- > Proto-Gk. And yes, it marks me wrong unless I keep the peces swim, pescado is food distinction straight. My textbook (?) David E.: [Blench is] good at writing, unlike one or two perfectly capable linguists one can think of, who have everything except the gift of clear exposition. I didnt think to make further enquiries Its not in the dictionaries. IIRC some of the other groups in SE Asia have the same nearly everything is isolating problem, but Sino-Tibetan is particularly blatant because of how long-range it is (Sinitic split off from the rest of Tibeto-Burman something like 5-6 kiloyears ago, and some other Trans-Himalayan languages might have split off even earlier). It is a paper mentioned in this post. He also suggests a relation to Proto-West Germanic *-astrij.[1]. Goat is probably reconstructable for Proto-Volta-Congo, though this is uncertain (it depends on the reconstruction of a stem-final consonant, and I can currently find no other example for the correspondence at that level.). Maybe its just the biorxiv version, which could have been scanned from a paper copy or maybe received in Word and printed for scanning or something. (Respect for my elders inhibits me from giving specific examples.). And in the acquisition of the lexicon, again across languages, children move from a restricted vocabulary of nursery terms and over or underextensions of conventional items to a period of creative innovation; eventually the conventional lexicon takes over, while at the same time vocabulary growth is both constrained and elaborated by socially and culturally appropriate distinctions of register and usage, lasting into adolescence. (Lameen), But hes not any kind of iconoclast, and his go-and-see-for-myself method, while wholly admirable and enviable, doesnt help when the higher-level classifications have themselves been based on inadequate data and/or inadequate reasoning, because he essentially takes the higher-level framework as given, and sorted out already. Once raiding is stopped, the same lands go to cropland. Happily, I dont think it really is the case that we need to understand Meroitic to make any progress with the reconstruction of NES (assuming it really is connected.) Much of Africa has had a growing middle class for generations. Wiesbaden: Reichert], I cant find it. or is that just my imagination running away with me? (Science)), Although our analysis provided inconsistent support for Arabic as a lineage of Central Semitic (i.e. Without worries over some arbitrary minimum number of defining traits, it is safe to say that some areas are more securely established because they contain many shared traits, whereas other areas may be more weakly defined because their languages share fewer areal traits. Ozwords (a blog from the Australian National Dictionary Centre) Such an editor is going to have trouble finding qualified referees, I suppose. DWDS (Der deutsche Wortschatz von 1600 bis heute) Im trying to understand the argument that something other than the movement of significant numbers of people relying on some technological advantage would impose relative uniformity of language. was in the Central Nile region in 18,000 BCE. Blench doesnt go round finding spurious traces of noun classes in Dogon in order to make it fit Niger-Congo better. Like Harold Fleming, Christopher Ehret (1995: 490) divides Afroasiatic into two branches, Omotic and Erythrean. If they knew anything about rates of change of languages (or say compared any contemporary language to its form 100 years ago vs 3,000 YBP), wouldnt it be screamingly obvious their methodology makes no sense? The term Hamito-Semitic remains in use in the academic traditions of some European countries, as well as in the official census of the government of India. It breaks down rapidly if treated as an actual fact. Competing synonyms for nouns only have pairwise cases: two each of pole, bark and mouth, as well as root, vein | vein, sinew and breath, soul | soul, self; adjectives have two cases of dry and possibly big. As an ideophone for cringing its perfect. Along those lines, Claude Rilly seems to be doing some good work in settling the question of whether Meroitic was Afroasiatic or Nilo-Saharan (for sake of argument. I was confusing him with Mukarovsky, who actually had a quite different erroneous idea re Songhay and Mande anyway. Some of the Swadesh nominals might be a bit too general to be stable, as JP was suggesting for some the verbs above. Given that recent phylogenetic treatment of early tetrapods shows that [] may be distinct from most or all other [] and may instead belong to the amniote crown group ([]), this would suggest [] may have occurred [], ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~, There is little in the way of plausible lexical matches (but there are some: its a bit like the situation with Uralic and Indo-European.). Perhaps not even Ehret. It means: if you fail to reconstruct morphology then lexical reconstruction is useless. Wow, I love seeing this kind of thing worked out with examples like that. Studies [] have revealed deep and substantive similarities with amniotes in the braincase ([2 papers by some of the other authors]). Im not misrepresenting Blench at all in this matter: simply describing exactly what he does (in two quite specific instances, moreover.) At some point, we posit archaic language diversity. Mehri and Harsusi kob dog form a cognate set (distinct from kalb). - They (well, Robin a name the owner of which should be required to provide their pronouns) come up with 17% of their list of 258 etymons. In Greek, the earliest attestations seem to come from scholia, but figuring out when they actually date to is beyond me right now. We explored whether this ancestry penetrated both the Levant and Arabia at the same time and found that admixture dates mostly followed a North to South cline, with the oldest admixture occurring in the Levant region between 3,300 and 5,900 ya (Table S2), followed by admixture in Arabia (2,0003,500 ya) and East Africa (2,1003,300 ya). More specifically, Chilean Cachai? A kindly man, and serious Bodomos classification has little to recommend it (Nabit is unequivocally closer to Kusaal than to Nankare/Farefare, for example, and his Central Mabia is actually the least problematic part of his revisionist classification) but placing Buli-Konni as part of his Central Mabia (basically WOV) is at least an improvement over the pretty diagram above it. This was before the Day of the Trawler. The Ushari Ahmed Mahmoud mentioned by Thelwall apparently also co-authored this report (there is a French clip about him), The inscribed lintel and the two funerary stelae in the Napatan / Meroitic cemetery at Sedeinga are really impressive. For example, he (elsewhere) takes it for granted that its up to splitters to prove than Mande is not part of Niger-Congo, on the sole grounds (as far as I can see) that this relationship has been accepted by many people for a long time, without addressing how weak the evidence was from the beginning. mereswine*), Porpoise in Welsh is the poetic llamhidydd leaper, acrobat.. The collapse of the Ghassulian culture in Palestine around 3300 B.C. Think Altaic, not Indo-European. I dont know what he means by conclusive significance:/, >2000 years is not actually a long time compared with the probable time depth of NES: these languages are nowhere near as closely related to one another as the Germanic or the Romance languages. NB: I wrote it this way because I do not know the actual distribution. I guess its easier when you can reconstruct morphological correspondences to go with your lexical ones. >Actually, the Nilo-Saharan situation looks not unlike Ryans scenario: very old families some small, some quite large that have been in low-level contact since ever. wild boar, 2. In the south of the Arabian peninsula a distinct consonantal script had appeared by at least the sixth century BC, and certainly had begun to develop several hundred years earlier. But such subclassifications stand on doubly faulty foundations. In Arabic Hamito-Semitic remains somewhat more widely understood, but theres no original research on the subject to speak of in Arabic. I dont assume uniformity arose in deep antiquity. But thats no substitute for actual evidence that something really happened.). ), so we dont have access to the list of characters, though it was probably a near-subset of those used later. But I admit again its a relatively naive expectation. I take it that the standard languages are meant. And if you need borrowed morphology, Danish -eri (vaskeri, bageri) seems to be borrowed from some Romance varietys equivalent of the -eria in pizzeria, taquera and so on.
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