As easy to install as regular sand, almost. Maybe a channel drain, along the wall furthest from the house? Do you have any ideas of what the cause could be? On the other hand, if you are using gravel on a patio, it is best if the pea gravel is completely immovable. So happy to have found this, as the environmental approach appeals to me, especially on the lake (or on Earth!). That doesnt mean that they certainly wont work.but as a professional, they wouldnt usually be my first pick. good luck and let me know how it goesmaybe you can teach me something on the subject , Hi Devin, your blog on polymeric sand was very helpful. Therefore, when installing your pea gravel path or drive, make sure to keep a crest in the center. Push down on it, one corner of the stone at a time. Stone screenings will contain 1/8 inch to 1/16th inch small chips of stone, like large sized sand, and fines, which will be like flour. It looses its gravel texture, it just ceases to be gravel.looking like a cross between a rice crispy teat and black-topbut looking nothing like a gravel walkway. Heres an application that is somewhat unique, and problematic so far. I wonder if you could mix something like that in with your gravel? Or you could look into planting some sort of ground cover like a creeping thyme or something. Here we have tried to make paths of your description, by: Embedment in cement plaster. )and get as many of them clean as possible, knowing that a few of them you may have to replace, a few maybe get turned upside down and re-puzzled in to the project, maybe leave one stone still with the haze, as part of the patio forever, to always remind you of this fun adventure. it will likely stay glued to itself.but the bricks or stone that it is set amongstthese will not be clean surfaces. Any suggestions? After 4 months, it starts to have wavy driveway. Last year, I installed the landscape fieldstone for a courtyard but after an injury, had to stop before completing. Please share any ideas. Thank you. He hosed and tamped the joints a couple of times, and Ive hosed them a couple more times since. Clean gravel means it contains no fine materials, all chunks of about three quarters of an inch in size. Bear with me here I dont know a lot about it but have you ever thought about using glass marbles, crushed glass, fish tank gravel in a more vibrant color something that would be a little more creative? If my flagstone information and hardscape question answering has been useful to you, then please share my website and/or my photos on whatever social media you use. On the surface, no pun intended, it seems like a bullet proof option but for my flag stone patio Im going with the stone dust option! This year we had the finances to redo it (had our concrete co. remove it) with Connecticut Bluestone slate. Visible from the road, near blue Mountain Ski Resort. I cant find anyone who sells decomposed granite. Science demands this of me. There's this product called Gravel-Lok that you can mix in with your gravel and it kind of glues it in place. I also like your stand on being paid for your knowledge and experience. Half inch, quarter inch, eighth an inchany of those would workso long as they have fines3/8 is what I usually use, but I work around the country, and sizes/names vary slightly yet every place Ive been wcarries something like this. Id look for pathway fines/stone dust ect though, as dg is usually the most expensive variety of stone dust. Ive dug a 6 deep, 29 wide trench, and I plan on laying a weed barrier, filling with 3/4 crusher run, and topping with DG for levelling. The screenings will generally stay put, once theyve been swept into place and hosed down real well. 1. (Note: I am not a professional, but love to DYI landscape). Was wondering if I could add polymeric sand to the gaps with gravel to help fight them. Just an aesthetic issue. They say I mixed the cement wr. Good luck with your flagstone project! I think I read up above that one shouldnt have to pressure wash flagstone patios very often I think you mentioned once every 10 years. Did you set the flagstones in mortar/on top of a concrete foundation? Also, very impressive stone sculptures! I have written an article that discusses whether to use sand, cement or gravel for in between you flagstone joints. But d-limonene does dissolve a few types of plastic, so I am thinking that d-limonene with a wire-brush just might do the trick. The next step is to install the base. Quick question: in cases where the polymeric sand has left a white haze on the slate as you mentioned, what is the best way to remove the haze? I just installed a granite flagstone walkway. I cant say too much about stabilized decomposed granite. Ants love sand, sand washes out more easily than stone dust, so Id remove the sand and replace with stone dust. Year and years later, no problembut then I have seen hardscapes built by other contractors, that used white gravel for the foundationand seen jobs like that fail. I realize it would be better to remove everything but Im not up to doing that. thanks. Like on your clothes or something. As for the flagstone surrounding your firepityou said you placed the stone in natural dirt. Heres a patio, where for most of it, I set the flagstones maybe an inch to an inch and a half apartso thats already wider than usual, for mebut then, for the section of patio just past the deck and surrounding the pond, we set the flagstones more like 2 inches apart. With large gaps like that, this is the best that can be doneis find a way to get the slope corrected. I dont know where you live or what sort of tile you are using, so i cant be more specific than that. Finally, Ill bring back the stones and level them (with screenings?) Glad you found the article useful! Yes, concrete can be poured on pea gravel, but it is important to make sure that the gravel is properly prepared. Therefore I very carefully applied the poly sand directly into the joints using a grout bag. Resulted in ugly haze. Hello Chris. I find cleaning up the solids simple with a disposable glove and plastic bag. But the mortar beneath the stones will likely crack, making wobbly stones sitting on cracked hard cement. Dig, then tamp, then lay roadbase gravel (3/4 minus). Specifically, decomposed granite aka decomposed granite screenings is crushed stone, made from granite. Thanks! Anywhere that sells gravel/sand/mulch, usually. I appreciate your guidance. You may have to wait a few months since he is sought after like that, but he, does travel to new jersey. Is there another name for dg/screenings? This downward slope on each side will help with water runoff and prevent washouts. Check it againrepeat until its wobble-free. Will smaller flagstones be stable, or do you need to use larger slabs? Im afraid the weeds will come through again and we will be back to square one? Hi helpful article- thank you. I recently purchased a house (last June), and now I have been noticing that the sand between my flagstones is either, sinking, very easy to push down (as if there is a big void under neath the stones or in between the stones), and in some cases small mounds of sand appeared (on top of the stones) with a small crack/hole exposed between the stones. 2" joints may be too big for polymeric (read the bag/box). The joint are fairly wide 1 to 2.5 average, and he even left some 3-6 areas along the perimeter walls. Im glad I read this and plan to steer well clear of polymeric sand. Is the patio pitched in the right direction, and pitched consistently? You can use stone dust in wider joints.Ive done so, once or twice and whereas I wasnt super happy about the way it looked, it did end up functioning well. Screed this gravel, nice and smooth, using a 4 long wooden level. The other thing to watch for, as far as separation between your mortar joint and the edge of your flagstoneis getting everything clean. Come join the discussion about performance, modifications, classifieds, troubleshooting, maintenance, and more! Take it dry and rake it in with the pea gravel , you dont want too much cement sitting on top . On the right hand side is modified gravel, or d.o.t road base. Our monsoon rains also might wash it out. Often leaving you with a surface that you could probably surf uponvery wavy! Step 2 - Install the Base. So fun, so tiring!). Would prefer to be able to pressure wash is once in a while, so does stone dust make it impossible to pressure wash them? Stone dust, for life. Still, this stuff is what you are asking me for. So the stones just didnt get seated properly. Great work, youve inspired another. 903 landscape supply is the place: https://www.903inc.com/. Encourage moss to grow there. It just doe not look right, does not at all have the look and feel of real gravel. Does lime really extend the life of the mortar joint? I just installed a natural stone patio and was researching poly sand for filling the cracks when I came across your article. I was wondering how best to address a potential problem as winter is approaching. Best way that Ive found to remove that sort of haze is to just use a power washer. Theres also an adjoining bluestone path with 2 joints, but Ive used mulch for those and pounded it in; seems to be holding although it gets weedy of course. There are many methods of stabilizing pea gravel. As such, when maintenance issues do arise, you probably want to call a pro and have them deal with it. Stone dust is usually available in whatever colors if road base type gravel are quarried in your area. Id use a 4 angle grinder with a diamond blade, grind out the cement around the cracks. Here you can buy grey gravel, red gravel and cream colored gravel.stone dust is available in those very same colors, because stone dust is graveljust smaller. Lay the 2x down on top of the trench and hammer down to tamp. Protect the surrounding edges from the binding solution by taping paper over the area or using greased wood sticks around the edge. Given how unpleasant it is to walk on screenings with bare feet, what would your suggestion be for spaces that are greater than 3? It just dissuaded me from polymeric sand. We are a team of passionate homeowners, home improvement pros, and DIY enthusiasts who enjoy sharing home improvement, housekeeping, decorating, and more with other homeowners! Thank you for bringing that updecomposed granite is yet another name for stone dust. When using pea gravel for a hard surface patio or similar area, you need to use a binding solution. You could a) hire a professional. Thank you for the details. in the cracks thinking the soil and plants will help hold the stones in place. My thought is to cut that mixture down 3 inches and put 1.5 inches of this shaker sand on top as my leveling material. but no sand. Such joints will fail within a few years. With stone dust the most you have to do is top of the joints every once in awhile. Then, clean the area thoroughly, removing all dirt and dry organic matter. https://www.devineescapes.com/flagstone-what-to-use-sand-cement-or-gravel/. I was wondering if you know the best way to do this and what would be good to use in wider joints. Secondly, never been afraid of a little work!! Also, it is unnecessary. So, if that patio is dry laid, then I would remove the material from the joints at the same time I was pressure washing the stones surface. I haven't used it but was impressed that Colonial Williamsburg and other historic places used it. It is just what I was after and while the pea gravel has the "look" it does not have the stability. Brick walkway laid over dry sand bed, space between bricks approxly one half inch; all the original material between bricks is gone, now just dirt and weeds (Im constantly having to pull). Inch and a half Ill pass.but if theres stones with 2 inches or more of sand, then I expect to see more problems down the road. I know it hasnt been that long since the quarry dust was placed between the stones and according to what I have read in your comments, the stone/dust will settle down. Then we mixed a ratio of 2 parts mortar to 1 part pea gravel. Then I pound that stone down, using a deadblow type mallet. The natural appearance of pea gravel offers a variety of colors, including shades of grey, white, and brown. 3. I havent been able to find much info about it so I really hope it really is a natural alternative to polymers. If sothen fill your joints with mortar. Is there a liquid or possible caulking that could be used in this type of situation? I have never used a polymeric sand, and I am wondering if I made some out of the crushed stone I have (which is very fine, for filling the joints, and I have a lot of it still)? It already has plasticizers added into the mix, to increase workbility and stickiness, no need to add lime. The mix is not a slurry and is very hard to tell from damp gravel. Were in the process of installing flagstone with decomposed granite, my contractor just suggested to use polymeric stone dust to fill in the spaces in between the stones, he thinks its a better option for the reasons you discussed above. Just sitting on a little sand and a lot of clay. Excellent advice! Shady area you say? Just did a repair where the sand in-between and under the flagstones was undermined by and taken over by ants. that is the stone dust that you refer to, pea gravel or something else as a filler in cracks that wide? great article. Youre welcome. This can trouble novices and pros alike. Step 1 - Prepare the Patio Measure the area of your patio that contains the pea gravel, and use this measurement to order the correct amount of binding solution material needed. Early in my flagstone patio career I used to try and keep the screenings in my flagstone joints as close to level with the stones as possible, but with foot traffic, wind and rain, the joints seem to naturally level off to around an average of one eighth of an inch shy of flush with the flagstone.. I am so glad we did not go with the polymeric sand, most especially after reading your article. Site conditions will of course determine which will work for your spot. These surfaces are stable. Then tamp. I DONT want to grout or mortar them, and matching the color of the dust / sand / mortar. You can choose from various materials like plastic edging or metal borders. You can also sprinkle cement over gravel to reduce sliding and shifting. Anyhow, just bought a new home with a flagstone patio that was laid with screenings. Now in the above drawing, on the left is 3/4 to 1 clean gravel. White screenings are made from limestoneand crushed limestone has a bad name, in the hardscaping industry, because it tends to hold water. As such, it handles the Pennsylvania free-thaw rather well. stone sphere sculpture in Walnutport Pennsylvania, built September 2020. I used the natural dirt to lay and level and pressed the flagstone cracks with the same. How big are the gaps between the flagstones? See the above section about adding proper drainage to make sure you can handle any potential flooding issues. I think Ill try the screening stuff. Love the info. Heres the quick story: Ive reclaimed enough of the small pieces from borders created by the previous owner. Also, I just placed about 4 of them to see how it might work. Sure. It is easy to apply, environmentally friendly and allows water to percolate. He wants to lay a new flagstone patio on top of a mix of sand mixed with cement(about 6 to 1). But that was 8 deep of crushed gravel, not just a 1/2 joint. Once all the stones are laid, sweep more screenings into the joints. Hate it? 2. Natural dirt could mean any combinations of these soil types. Will stone dust/decomposed granite work in both/either area? What if I use the yogurt method etc? Purchase screenings at a landscape supply store or at a quarry. Just sweep the decomposed granite into the cracks between the stones, then turn on the shower to set the DG/stone dust into place. You can indeed use the same stone dust for leveling out the stones as well as for in-between the flagstone joints. Also avoid non-porous rocks like pea gravel, river rocks, fish rocks, sand, glass marbles, etc. consider setting up a phone/email consultation with a professional stone hardscape instructor. Thanks, JoAn. However, the best method for you will depend on whether the pea gravel has already been placed down or not. The modal window is a 'site map' of the most critical areas of the site. Get home building tips, offers, and expert advice in your inbox. I recommend screeningswhich are 1/8 inch and smallerand contain the very important finesflour-like, powdery stone dust. Well, if the foundation and pitch all seem decent, then Id simply suggest removing the gator dust and replacing with stone dust. Despite that, regular stone dust usually works just fine in between flagstones, without any binder, polymeric or otherwise. They get slippery. Would love to find a sub-contractor to just do the work but two months of trying hasnt produced anyone. Add in DG which will work its ways down. I hope for your sake, and the contractors sake too, that such a fate can be avoided. Spread it out, rake it in, hose it down. Thought taking up and adding base rock under but that is a ton of work. Thanks for your input and letting me pick your creative experienced brain! If your stone is on a concrete base, then you want to repair it with mortar, not stone dust. Ive heard and read about some concerns about the limestone breaking down the flag over time, as well as concerns for efflorescence. I had the poly sand removed and the quarry dust filled in its only been a week or so. I have mostly smaller spaces between the stones but there are some areas up to 3 wide. Remove the mortar with an angle grinder and chisel/large flatheat screwdriver. Ive seen this both here in eastern Pennsylvania and out where you live. didn't think far enough on this one. If it were me, Id repair the existing patio with mortarand then probably do the additional 10 dry laid. see if it works. There were two erosion spots that created 4 low spots. Flagstone: what to use, sand, cement, or gravel? Having decades of experience, I can make this type of material workby fitting them tight, malleting them into their bedding material, maybe using some of the smaller ones uprightor not at all, and other tricks Ive picked up over the yearsbut still at the end of the day, a dry laid patio built with this sort of material will probably not be 100% wobble free at job completion. Compacting the pea gravel will help keep it in place. If you purchased plastic edging..just return it to lowes. Do a search for how to propagate moss. Ive seen stone dust joint stabilizers are being sold, but that might be as bad as poly sand. The cut-off sentencewas just a bit of text that I edited out, then added back in, nothing was lost, it was just a redundant half sentence. PDF for Aggregates/Sand & Gravel Washing Polymer Additions. It did say that clean up was with ammonia, so isit stray cat proof? I selected Galleries and then Flagstone Walkways, the last two images once magnified to 500% show clear images of your stone screenings. Another optionfit the stones so tight together so that theres really no need for filler. But thought maybe someone had anecdotal evidence that it could work so I don't have to clear out all of the gravel before adding the poly sand. Psyllium husk joint binder is, as far as I can tell, a lot more natural than an acrylic based product. This is coming from a guy who originally jumped on the poly sands some fifteen years ago. Larger than half an inch= more likely to crack. Do a proper foundation, use real stone not pavers, pitch it 1/4 per foot, forget about poly sand and forget about sealing. But okay, if youre going to live with what you have then yea, stone dust is a much better option than poly sand. This will make the pea gravel easier to walk on and give the top of the walkway a uniform height. I used screenings to fill in between the joints. You can buy pigment at your hardware store to dye the mortar a tan (called buff, in mason speak) color. Which is ideal for large joints? Best recommendation is to use large flagstone, small joints, stone dust/decomposed granite as the leveling agent and joint material. Alas, Ive been a bit busy with tentacles and planetoids, and also with helping DIY enthusiasts with their own projects. Do we need to remove all the flagstones, then scrape everything and start back? Before the coat is dry, apply sand over the binding solution. No polymeric sand. I seem to have to pressure wash mine every year. Perhaps they can offer some ideas. If the flagstones were not getting slippery then I might suggest encouraging the Moss and just living with discolored flagstones and appreciating the Aged look. And if you think this would work, what proportions ? Clean the joint of all dust and debri. My brother suggested sand? If the gator dust is failing so soon, AND there is such a gigantic cavity forming, one can imagine that there must be something wrong with the gravel foundation beneath the flagstones. A professional, who will talk with you on the phone, and walk you through the process of laying flagstone, repairing flagstone, or any other such situation? But I couldn't find it in Utah, and I also read that it sticks to your shoes and becomes a sanding agent if you have wood floors, which I do. In bucks county you can get red screeningsblooming glen quarry, outside of Quakertown. Stays in place. Crushed gravel can range in different sizes too and is often used for driveways, paths, and decorative purposes. Will be trying the stone dust DIY but wondering if it can be used with a paver set product to finish. Florida is one of the most unique states in the country because of the weather, sights, and bodies of water. Great information and helpful blog! Hey! Are these two similar products? I was wondering I have put all my random flagstone down on the screening. Not a big fan of waterproofing goop being sprayed into stone screenings either. Hi Devin. 6 inches if youre expecting a lot of traffic. (even non-shrinking exterior grout). We got heavy rain and its very wet and now some of the stones move and are sloshing around in the stone dust there are no pools of water but its really soft and the lots of the stones move and almost slosh down when stepped on. I would then proceed to use screening in between joints. You want to leave the joints approximately 1/8 to 1/4 below the top of the stone. But the real complaint that I have against this gravel glue epoxy whatever were talking about, the real complaint is that it just does not look good. These stones will reduce the amount of traffic on the actual pea gravel. For urine & feces odor control I spray the kennels occasionally with yard odor killer, which works great.I don't use cement because it is damaging to the dogs pads.To address my problem:I have a long driveway made with reject ab. This project will be my first. Chances are, they used a grout bag and soupy mortar mix.or just tuck pointed with somewhat wet mortar and didnt clean it up sufficiently while it was wet. I particularly appreciate the advice on killing any weeds that get in there with hot water, vinegar or pulling them by hand vs using Round UP. I don't know if it is chemically dog friendly. As such, I wouldnt really consider a dry lay option on top of old concrete unless the customer very much wanted it, and unless the flagstone itself were going to have a really tight fitting joints for example if it was going to be a pattern cut, square and rectangular flagstones with minimal joints then, if the walkway is pitched strong enough there really is not much way for a very much in order to get down there in the first place. Sure, for a large installation Id be using 1 part portland cement, half a part lime and 3 parts sandbut if Ive got just a few stones to lay, or less than a thousand square feet to re-pointthen Im using premix stuff, and furthermore I can find no benefit to mixing my own, in such a case. Devin, Before my enlightenment my aha!
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